Ah, I remember hearing about the Flash Duel situation many years ago. Apparently Knizia had kind of a history of threatening (groundless) lawsuits over reuse of game mechanics, and the decision not to include the originally intended credit with Flash Duel was based on a recommendation from a lawyer, on "just in case" better-safe-than-sorry grounds. My impression is that it's one of those situations where no one was really happy with the outcome.
Although, well, absent the story surrounding Flash Duel, I don't think anyone would ever even talk about En Garde anymore to begin with — the game feels kind of like an experimental movement mechanic, packed up and sold in a box, and Flash Duel kind of feels like "what if En Garde were a completed game design." It's kind of a frustrating situation all around, especially given that the reimplementation is just a significantly better game.
Thanks for bringing so many historic examples into the discussion when exploring this, especially important in a field that's not always super well documented. It's fascinating to look at how this problem has been dealt with, and that it has been an ongoing puzzle within gamedev. I do absolutely hope, as you suggested, folks see the value in being good neighbours.
Had a game that hired the same celebrity and the new game designer/company said it’s the sequel to the old game and it’s an homage etc. it rehashes everything the original game did and covered with a few tweaks and bells. The press and public thought the original designer was part of it and some. even sent congrats to the old designer.
Reading a few reviews the mechanic are pretty similar as a clone can be.
They never contacted the old designer for a blessing or a notice or deal to be part of it.
Suing was possible but it’s about 250k to start something like that, and the company probably has errors and omissions insurance which means they have a million dollar legal war chest to start with. So the old designer is outgunned and pretty pissed.
Don't forget, y'all also included waving a hat to distract other players (a straight pull from Swashbuckler).
Here's what I wrote in my review back in the day of The Dragon & Flagon:
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homage
noun hom·age \ˈä-mij, ˈhä-\
1. respect or reverence paid or rendered:
2. the formal public acknowledgment by which a feudal tenant or vassal declared himself to be the man or vassal of his lord, owing him fealty and service.
3. the relation thus established of a vassal to his lord.
4. something done or given in acknowledgment or consideration of the worth of another:
I wish to note that when I suggest that Geoff, Brian & Sydney created an homage to Yaquinto’s Swashbuckler, I am using definitions #1 and #4… not #2 or #3… which would be more appropriate to my relationship to a mortgage lender.
I also wish to note that the Family Engelstein rocked this homage – combining a number of great design ideas into a complete and extremely playable whole.
Ah, I remember hearing about the Flash Duel situation many years ago. Apparently Knizia had kind of a history of threatening (groundless) lawsuits over reuse of game mechanics, and the decision not to include the originally intended credit with Flash Duel was based on a recommendation from a lawyer, on "just in case" better-safe-than-sorry grounds. My impression is that it's one of those situations where no one was really happy with the outcome.
Although, well, absent the story surrounding Flash Duel, I don't think anyone would ever even talk about En Garde anymore to begin with — the game feels kind of like an experimental movement mechanic, packed up and sold in a box, and Flash Duel kind of feels like "what if En Garde were a completed game design." It's kind of a frustrating situation all around, especially given that the reimplementation is just a significantly better game.
A game title might be defendable as a trademark, but surely it is not covered by copyright.
Nailed it, Geoff. Attribution takes such little effort, I do not know why people are so reticent to do so.
Thanks for bringing so many historic examples into the discussion when exploring this, especially important in a field that's not always super well documented. It's fascinating to look at how this problem has been dealt with, and that it has been an ongoing puzzle within gamedev. I do absolutely hope, as you suggested, folks see the value in being good neighbours.
You covered all the bases.
Had a game that hired the same celebrity and the new game designer/company said it’s the sequel to the old game and it’s an homage etc. it rehashes everything the original game did and covered with a few tweaks and bells. The press and public thought the original designer was part of it and some. even sent congrats to the old designer.
Reading a few reviews the mechanic are pretty similar as a clone can be.
They never contacted the old designer for a blessing or a notice or deal to be part of it.
Suing was possible but it’s about 250k to start something like that, and the company probably has errors and omissions insurance which means they have a million dollar legal war chest to start with. So the old designer is outgunned and pretty pissed.
Well said/written... of course.
Don't forget, y'all also included waving a hat to distract other players (a straight pull from Swashbuckler).
Here's what I wrote in my review back in the day of The Dragon & Flagon:
---
homage
noun hom·age \ˈä-mij, ˈhä-\
1. respect or reverence paid or rendered:
2. the formal public acknowledgment by which a feudal tenant or vassal declared himself to be the man or vassal of his lord, owing him fealty and service.
3. the relation thus established of a vassal to his lord.
4. something done or given in acknowledgment or consideration of the worth of another:
I wish to note that when I suggest that Geoff, Brian & Sydney created an homage to Yaquinto’s Swashbuckler, I am using definitions #1 and #4… not #2 or #3… which would be more appropriate to my relationship to a mortgage lender.
I also wish to note that the Family Engelstein rocked this homage – combining a number of great design ideas into a complete and extremely playable whole.
Great take on this. Thanks Geoff.